6 祖师禅林20251123禅一问答

Questions and Answers from a One-Day English Chan Retreat

播放问答录音 (音频时长：1小时)

6.1 1 开场与提问

1 Opening and Questions

Opening Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师开场：
Now it is time for questions and answers. We welcome questions about what you have learned and experienced today, as well as any other questions. Please raise your hand freely. You may ask in Chinese or English; interpretation is available for both.
现在是问答时间。欢迎大家提出今天一天学习、体验下来所遇到的问题，也欢迎任何其他问题。大家可以自由举手，用中文或英文发问，我们都有现场翻译。

6.2 2 观照是该怎么就怎么做

2 Contemplation Means Doing What Needs to Be Done

Question Participant:
学员问：
I was wondering: if we only observe and do not judge, how do bad things change? For example, if I see something bad happening and only observe without judging, I cannot help the person involved. Even when I can clearly see that something is bad, I cannot change anything. If everybody thinks this way, how will bad things change?
我想问，如果我们只是观察、不作评判，不好的事情要怎么改变？例如，我看到不好的事情发生，如果只观察、不评判，就无法帮助别人。即使我明明看出这件事不好，也无法改变什么。如果每个人都这样想，不好的事情要怎么改变？
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
This is a misunderstanding. The observation we speak of is not indifference. When we speak of observing without judging or responding, the main purpose is to keep our emotions from being disturbed. Whatever method or Dharma method we practice, it is important first to work with our own emotions and learn not to be affected by them. We must respond to what we observe. Being able to do so with our own emotions settled, without being swayed, is a deeper level of wisdom contemplation. Wisdom contemplation means responding in some situations and not in others, doing what needs to be done. It does not mean never responding at all.
这是一个误会，我们所说的观察并不是冷漠。观察时说不评价、不回应，最主要是让自己的情绪不受影响、波动。无论修行什么方法、法门，很重要的是先对治自己的种种情绪，先做到自己不受影响。对所观察到的事情，我们必须有所回应。能够在回应时安住自己的情绪、不受牵动，就是更深层的智慧观照。智慧的观照，是有所回应、有所不回应，该怎么做就怎么做，并不是完全不回应。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
For example, a child at home is playing, falls down, cuts their head, and starts bleeding. When we see this, we clearly know that the child is injured, so we need to respond: hurry to help, give assistance, and provide care. But throughout our response, we keep our state of mind stable. This is what we train in Chan practice.
譬如家里的小孩在玩耍时跌倒，摔破头、流血了。我们看到这个现象，很清楚小孩子受伤了，就要有所回应，赶快帮助、救助他，给他医护。但在整个回应的过程中，我们的心情保持稳定。这就是禅修所要训练的。

6.3 3 觉照化解矛盾冲突

3 Resolving Conflict through Mindful Awareness

Question Participant:
学员问：
To follow up on that: from a Chan perspective, what kinds of actions are unjustified? For example, can war ever be justified, or does it cross the line of what constitutes an appropriate response?
接着刚才的问题，从禅的角度来说，哪些行动是不正当的？例如，战争有没有可能是正当的？还是说，战争已经超出了回应所应有的界限？
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
For example, when someone criticizes or insults me, we clearly understand the content of the criticism or insults. Whether what they say is right or wrong, the first thing is to maintain a steady emotional state and state of mind. In other words, we do not let their words or actions pull our feelings and emotions into a vortex.
譬如别人批评我、骂我的时候，我们很清楚他批评、责骂的内容。不管内容是对是错，首先要保持平稳的情绪和心情。也就是说，不让心情和情绪受到他的言辞、行为牵动，而陷入漩涡当中。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Many serious matters can be reduced to smaller ones, and smaller ones can be resolved altogether. But without this capacity for mindful awareness, we get caught up in them and make them bigger and more serious. What began as a simple criticism grows into a larger issue because you become involved, get drawn into the vortex, and enter into conflict with the other person. By cultivating mindful awareness through practice, we can deal with situations rationally and resolve them harmoniously, rather than magnify or deepen them and create greater problems. If our practice develops further, we will have the wisdom to face all kinds of criticism. We can not only resolve the conflict but also help the other person avoid becoming trapped in negativity or emotional opposition.
很多事情可以大事化小、小事化无。但没有这种觉照力时，我们陷入其中，就会把事情扩大、变得严重。本来只是简单的一句批评，因为你介入、陷入漩涡，开始跟他产生矛盾冲突，事情就扩大了。所以，透过修行培养觉照能力后，面对事情就可以理性地处理、圆融它，而不是扩大、深化，产生更大的问题。如果修行功夫更好，我们就会有智慧面对种种批评，不但化解矛盾冲突，还能帮助对方不陷入负能量或情绪中的对立。
Follow-up Question Participant:
学员补问：
From a Chan perspective, in war or when others attack us, may we defend ourselves, or should we be pacifists?
从禅的角度来说，在战争中或受到攻击时，我们可以自卫，还是应该坚持和平主义？
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Generally speaking, we feel attacked because we are in opposition to the other person. In Buddhist terms, we have taken a position against them; this is a dualistic judgment. An important part of Buddhist teaching is to help us, including through practice, resolve this dualistic opposition, especially opposition between people. Of course, not setting ourselves against the other person is a relatively advanced way of facing a situation.
一般来说，我们会感觉到被攻击，是因为我们跟他对立。从佛法来说，我们站在他的对立面，是一种二元的批判。佛教教理很重要的一点，是教会我们、或透过修行化解这种二元对立，尤其是跟人的对立。当然，不去跟他对立，是一种比较高层次的面对态度。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
For most people, being attacked feels very uncomfortable. It is important to learn how not to let that discomfort deepen the harm to ourselves. Often, we do not know how to face it or observe ourselves, and we end up hurting ourselves a second time: the other person causes harm in the moment, and then we become trapped in that hurt, making it worse. This is something to learn when beginning Chan practice: do not deepen the harm to yourself.
一般人受到攻击，会觉得很不舒服。如何不让这种不舒服加深对自己的伤害，是很重要的一点。我们往往不知道怎么面对、不会观照自己，反而常常二度伤害自己：对方当下造成了伤害，自己又陷入其中，让伤害变得更严重。这是初学禅修时要学会的——不要加深对自己的伤害。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
In the conventional worldly view, when we are attacked, we should defend ourselves and even strike back. Yet the arising of these circumstances, including conflicts and mutual attacks, often involves prior causes and subsequent effects that we cannot see. They are phenomena arising from causes and conditions. If we follow the ordinary worldly view and respond to an attack by striking back or protecting ourselves with what we call equal treatment, this back-and-forth becomes an endless cycle of retaliation. After learning Buddhism and taking up practice, an important starting point is therefore to ask how we can let the matter end here rather than carry it further. Of course, letting it end here does not mean that I simply suffer harm for nothing. I may still respond. But my response should not extend or escalate the situation, nor should it bring about greater karmic consequences later.
在世俗观念里，受到攻击就要防卫，甚至反击。可是，种种因缘的产生，包括矛盾、相互攻击，往往有我们看不到的前因后果，是一个因缘现象。如果随着一般世俗见解，受到攻击就回击、保护自己，做出所谓平等的对待，这样一来一往，就是冤冤相报，没完没了。所以学佛、修行之后，怎么样让事情到此为止、不再延伸，是很重要的立足点。当然，到此为止并不是说我就白白受伤害，我可能还是会回应；只是我的回应不要再延伸、扩大，也不要造成后面更大的因果回报。

6.4 4 情绪：面对它、接受它、处理它、放下它

4 Emotions: Face It, Accept It, Deal with It, and Let It Go

Question Participant:
学员问：
What exactly is the method for not getting caught up in emotions that you mentioned? Do we notice an emotion arising without entering into it? For example, I deal with my children’s emotional outbursts every day. These may involve verbal attacks or even physical attacks. At first, I can remain steady and keep some distance. But after I have been dealing with a child for an hour and they are still getting physical, I naturally feel that I cannot hold on much longer. My emotions have been stirred up, and I do not know what to do.
Also, if we are trying to keep our emotions stable and not get caught up in them, what exactly is our relationship with our emotions? They are still a very important and very real part of us. How should we view our inner emotions?
老师说不要陷入情绪，具体的方法是什么？是觉察到当下有情绪升起，但不进入它吗？例如，我每天面对小孩情绪失控，可能有言语攻击，甚至肢体攻击。一开始，我还能保持稳定、跟他保持距离，但处理了一个小时，他还是要动手动脚时，我会很自然地觉得快撑不住，情绪已经被带起来了，这时也不知道怎么办。
另外，如果我们努力的是保持情绪平稳、不陷入其中，情绪跟我们的关系究竟是什么？它仍是我们很重要、很真实的一部分，我们到底应该怎样看待内在的情绪？
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Your question concerns something very important that we need to face in Buddhism and in practice: the question of ‘I.’ What is ‘I’? Generally, we do not understand it; for the most part, we misunderstand it. We believe that this ‘I’ truly exists, and so we have so many emotions and afflictions. For example, I am sitting here looking outside and can see a mountain, but I would not say that the mountain is me. Yet we often take our own emotions to be ‘I.’ Our emotions, like that mountain, are something of which we are aware.
这个问题涉及佛教与修行中一个很重要、需要面对的问题，就是【我】。什么是【我】？我们一般都不了解，大部分是误解了。我们认为这个【我】真真实实地存在，所以有这么多情绪和烦恼。譬如，我坐在这里看外面，能看到山，但我不会说山是【我】。可是，我们常常把自己的情绪当成是【我】。情绪跟那座山一样，是被我们觉知到的。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Emotions arise through the coming together of causes and conditions. What arises will cease: it arises naturally and also passes away naturally. Yet once an emotion becomes intense, we do not let it pass. We let it keep growing and becoming stronger because we take it to be real. When facing emotions, it is important to establish a correct understanding: they arise through causes and conditions, and they will both arise and cease. Knowing that they will cease, we do not get caught up in them. In this way, they will pass. This is a natural law.
情绪是因缘和合而产生的，会生就会灭，会自然生起，也会自然灭去。可是，情绪激动起来后，我们却不让它灭去，让它不断增长、增强，这是因为我们把情绪当成真实的。面对情绪，很重要的是建立正知见，知道它是因缘和合而生，会生起，也会灭去。既然知道它会灭去，我们就不要陷入其中，（这样）它就会过去，这是自然法则。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Let me give another example. A cup can hold plain water, coffee, tea, or juice. When it holds juice, we cannot say that the cup is juice; when it holds coffee, we cannot say that the cup is coffee. Once the coffee or juice inside has been poured out, the cup is still a cup. Yet we often cling to the idea that it becomes whatever it contains, when in fact it does not. The contents can come and go; they can be changed or poured out. Once poured out, they are no longer there. But we often keep them instead of pouring them out, taking them to be truly real. The cup can contain any of these things, and any of them can be removed. We simply do not know how to make that change.
我再举一个例子：杯子可以装白开水、咖啡、茶、果汁。装了果汁，不能说杯子就是果汁；装了咖啡，也不能说杯子就是咖啡。把里面的咖啡或果汁倒掉，杯子还是杯子。我们却常常执着，误认为装了什么就变成什么，其实不是的。里面的东西可以来来去去，可以更换、倒掉，倒掉就没有了。但我们往往不倒掉，一直留着它，认为它真真实实的。其实，杯子什么都可以容纳，也都可以去除，我们却不懂得这样转换。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
What I mean is that we should not regard the phenomenon of this moment as everlasting and unchanging, holding tightly to it. It comes and goes and can change; it depends on whether you are willing to do this. This is what we call letting go. We are speaking about emotions now, but all phenomena, including afflictions such as greed, anger, ignorance, arrogance, and doubt, arise through causes and conditions. If we do not keep them there, they pass. Then there are no afflictions—no greed, anger, ignorance, arrogance, or doubt.
我的意思是，不要把当下的现象认为是永恒不变的，牢牢抓住不放。其实，它来来去去、可以转换，就看你愿不愿意这么做，这就是所谓的放下。现在讲的是情绪，其实所有现象，包括贪、嗔、痴、慢、疑等种种烦恼，都是因缘和合的现象。我们不把它留住，它就过去了，就没有烦恼，没有贪、嗔、痴、慢、疑了。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
As for children, they are in a state of not knowing, of ignorance, and in the course of growing up they often do things that make us uncomfortable or unhappy. This, too, is simply a phenomenon. We may have forgotten that our own growing-up process was much the same; perhaps we were even noisier and more disruptive. What I mean is that we need to tolerate and allow what they do as they grow.
Of course, giving appropriate guidance at the right time—education—is necessary. But we should not deprive them of the process of growing up. The mistakes they make and the things they go through may all nourish their growth. We stay by their side, look after them, and offer help at the right time.
至于小孩子的问题，小孩子处在无知、无明的状态，成长过程中常常会做出让我们不舒服、不愉快的事情，这也只是一个现象。我们可能忘了，自己的成长过程也是如此，可能比他还吵、还闹。我的意思是，我们要容忍、容许他成长过程中的所作所为。
当然，在这个过程中，适当、适时给予指导，也就是教育，是必要的。但不要剥夺他的成长过程：他犯的错、承受的事情，可能都是成长的养分。我们在一旁照看他，并适时伸出援手。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
If we can have greater tolerance and patience with children, I believe our own afflictions can be reduced a great deal. Of course, this is also a process of learning, growing, and practicing for each of us.
My final conclusion is: face it, accept it, deal with it, and let it go.
如果我们对小孩子能有更大的包容和耐心，我相信自己的烦恼可以减低很多。当然，这对我们个人来说，也是一个学习、成长、修行的过程。
我最后的结论是：面对它、接受它、处理它、放下它。

6.5 5 工作压力与禅定

5 Work Pressure and Meditative States

Question Participant:
学员问：
I often feel that I live in two worlds: in one, outside work, I can practice Chan; in the other, at work, I face a heavy workload, pressure, an intense environment, and frequent urgent tasks, so it is difficult to enter a meditative state. Do I need to change to a job with less pressure and urgency, or can I continue doing the work I enjoy? Although many things cannot be changed, how can I enter a deeper meditative state in this working environment?
我常觉得自己活在两个世界：一个是工作之余，我能够进行参修；另一个是工作的时候，面对工作量大、压力大、高强度的环境，又常有紧急任务需要处理，很难进入禅定状态。我究竟需要换一份压力较小、较不急迫的工作，还是能够继续做自己喜欢的工作？虽然许多事情无法改变，在这样的工作环境中，如何进入更禅定的状态？
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Do not misunderstand this and think that practicing Chan and entering a meditative state will free you from afflictions and pressure. If you enter a meditative state, you will certainly come out of it—unless you have died, in which case there is neither entering nor leaving. Entering and leaving show that you are alive.
不要误以为修禅、进入禅定状态，就能摆脱烦恼和压力。你会入禅定，也一定会出禅定，除非你死了，就没有出、没有入了。有出有入，表示你是活着的。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Work pressure can, of course, come from the external environment and the workplace. Yet the pressure we actually experience is often created by ourselves. By that I mean that you stand in opposition to your work: ‘I do not like this job. I think it is stressful. I think I cannot do it or bear it.’ The first thing to examine is whether your pressure comes from a strong resistance to the work.
工作压力当然可能来自外在环境、工作职场，但真正的压力往往还是自己造成的。我所说的自己造成，是指你站在工作的对立面：我不喜欢这份工作，我认为它有压力、我做不来、我承受不住。你首先要检查：是不是因为对这份工作有很大的排斥，而产生了压力？
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
If you are not resisting the work, then consider whether your abilities are adequate for it. Have you taken on work beyond your abilities, creating pressure that you cannot withstand? If that is the case, you have a choice: you can choose work suited to your abilities, strengths, or inclinations.
如果不是在抗拒工作，就要考虑自己的能力能否胜任：是不是投入了超出能力范围的工作，因而产生难以抗拒的压力？如果是这种情况，你就有选择，可以选择适合自己能力、专长或意愿范围的工作。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
An important part of Chan practice is cultivating the ability to reduce the sense of self. When this sense of self is relatively low or dissolves, we can more easily become part of our surroundings (including the workplace) and find enjoyment in them. This is how Chan can help us. Since you have had the opportunity to learn Chan today, I suggest that you continue practicing earnestly. With this ability, whatever workplace you find yourself in later, you will be able to adapt, become part of it, and more easily enjoy being there.
禅修很重要的一点，是培养降低自我感的能力。当自我感（降低到）比较低或者消融时，我们就很容易融入环境（包括职场），也很容易乐在其中，享受那个环境。这是禅修可以帮助我们的。所以，我建议你，今天既然有缘学了禅修，就好好学下去。有了这股能力，日后不管在任何职场，都能适应、融入，也很容易乐在其中。

6.6 6 炼【心】：快节奏中保持觉知

6 Training the ‘Mind’: Maintaining Awareness at a Fast Pace

Question Participant:
学员问：
I have a follow-up question: how can I remain aware in a very fast-paced workplace? Recently, I have noticed that things move so fast that there is no time for my emotions to arise, so I cannot let them go either. In that state, it feels as though something is stuck, making it harder to return to my true mind. I then end up dealing with situations at work through a more automatic personality. If the pace of work is simply this fast, what can I do? How can I maintain awareness?
我想接着问：在节奏非常快的工作场域里，怎样仍然保持觉知？我最近观察到，节奏快得让我来不及让情绪升起，也就没办法放下。在这种状态下，好像有个东西卡着，让我较难回到自己的真心，结果又用一种比较自动化的人格，应对工作上的状况。如果工作节奏就是这么快，要怎么办，如何保持觉知？
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
I think this is something everyone will face in the future. AI (artificial intelligence) is developing particularly quickly now and is replacing much of our work, while we keep trying to catch up. I think this will be a serious challenge for all of us. Neither fast nor slow is bad in itself. As far as the mind is concerned, it is a form of training. This is the pace of our time and environment; if we keep failing to keep up, things will become increasingly difficult for us.
我想，这是未来每个人都会面临的课题。尤其现在 AI（人工智能）发展这么快，正在取代我们的许多工作，我们一直在追赶。我想，这是大家将来很严峻的课题。快或慢，本身都不是坏事；就心性来讲，它是一种锻炼。这个时代、这个环境的节奏就是这样，如果我们一直跟不上，就会越来越辛苦。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
When facing a fast pace, the first thing is to know how to use tools. AI, which I just mentioned, is a highly efficient tool, although I do not know whether it can help with your work. We need to make good use of various tools to make up for the ways in which we cannot keep up. You need to observe for yourself which tools are available and put them to use.
面对快节奏，首先要懂得运用工具。我刚才讲的 AI，是一种效率很高的工具，但我不知道它能不能帮上你的工作。我们要善用各种工具，弥补自己跟不上节奏的地方。可以用哪些工具，需要你自己观察、运用。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
The other aspect concerns the mind. When we cannot keep up, we feel frustrated and anxious, and various negative emotions arise. It is important not to let these negative emotions deepen our frustration, and not to let them push us further away from reality and society. Chan practice can help with this. It first helps us see ourselves more clearly. Once we know ourselves, we know how to adjust and face things, so that reality does not have an even greater impact on us.
另一方面是心性。跟不上节奏时，我们会挫折、焦虑，产生种种负面情绪。重要的是，不让这些负面情绪加深我们的挫折感，也不让它们进一步把我们推离现实、推离社会。禅修能够帮得上忙。禅修首先帮助我们认清自己；认清自己以后，就知道如何调整、如何面对，（从而）让自己面对现实时不受到更大的冲击。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
There are many so-called psychological counselors now. Many people have depression, manic-depressive conditions, or other mental problems. These psychological or mental states arise because they cannot adapt to or keep up with the reality of their surroundings. To address this problem, we need to start with our own ‘mind.’ The mind is central to Chan practice: what we are doing is training the ‘mind.’
现在有很多所谓的心理咨商师。好多人有忧郁、躁郁或精神方面的问题，都是因为适应不了、跟不上环境的现实，而产生的一种心理或精神状态。要解决这个问题，就要从自己的【心】下手。心是禅法最重要的地方，就是在练【心】。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
I see that physical fitness is very popular in society now. There are many fitness centers and gyms, and people diligently train their bodies. Many build strong bodies, large muscles, and well-defined abdominal muscles. Training only the body, while forgetting or neglecting to train the mind, is not right. As a result, their psychological state is often very fragile. My suggestion remains this: since you have had the opportunity to learn Chan today, continue practicing earnestly and strengthen your mind. Once the mind is strong, there is no problem that cannot be solved and no difficulty that cannot be overcome. Basically, there are then no problems.
我看到现在社会上，大家普遍喜欢健身，健身中心、健身房很多，大家都勤于练身。很多人把身体练得很强壮，肌肉很大、腹肌有好几块。只练身，却忘记了、疏于去练心，这样是不对的。所以，他们的心理常处在很脆弱的状态。我的建议还是：今天既然有因缘学了禅修，就好好学下去，把心练得更强大。心强大以后，没有解决不了的问题，没有克服不了的难关，基本上就没有任何问题。

6.7 7 【我】到底是什么

7 What Exactly Is the ‘Self’

Question Participant:
学员问：
You mentioned that neither emotions nor afflictions can represent who we are. In that case, what exactly am I? Is there anything that can represent me? Or am ‘I’ only like the cup you spoke about earlier, with everything else merely being something put inside it?
刚刚提到，不管是情绪还是烦恼，都不能代表我们。在这样的概念下，【我】到底是什么？有什么东西可以代表【我】？还是【我】只能像刚才讲的那个杯子，其他一切都只是装进去的东西？
Dialogue Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师互动：
If I say that you are not you, that you do not exist, what will you do? Will you fall apart? Then tell me: who is sitting here?
如果我说你不是你，说你不存在，你怎么办？你会不会崩溃？那你说，坐在这里的是谁？
Dialogue Participant:
学员互动：
I would be very confused.
我会很困惑。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
The existence of this ‘I’ comes about because we have consciousness. Consciousness affirms the existence of ‘I’ through what we see, hear, smell, and otherwise perceive—all the information we collect. Unfortunately, everything we see, hear, smell, and perceive is an illusory appearance. Calling it ‘illusory’ does not mean that it is absent. It exists and appears, but soon changes and disappears, continually arising and ceasing.
这个【我】的存在，是因为人有心意识。心意识靠着我们的见闻觉知——眼睛看到的、耳朵听到的、鼻子闻到的，以及收集来的种种讯息——肯定【我】的存在。很不幸，我们所见、所听、所闻、所觉知的这一切，都是假象。所谓‘假’，并不是没有，而是它存在、出现了，却很快又变化、消失，生生灭灭。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Yet we keep grasping at its appearance and existence to affirm the existence of ‘I.’ This is how ‘I’ comes into being and exists: our senses perceive something, and we take that perception as confirmation. Existence is a fact, but there is another fact: things disappear. They arise and cease, existing and then disappearing. Yet this ‘I’ neither acknowledges nor accepts disappearance. It grasps only at arising and existence in order to reinforce its own existence. This is where the problem lies, and it is the root of afflictions.
可是，我们总是抓住它的出现、它的存在，来肯定【我】的存在。【我】就是这样诞生、存在的：由感官觉知出来，再加以认定。存在是事实，但还有另一个事实，就是它会消失，生生灭灭，存在了又消失。可是，这个【我】不承认、不接受消失，只抓住‘生’、抓住存在，来巩固【我】的存在。这就是问题所在，也是烦恼的根源。
Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Take the tea leaves you saw during tea Chan earlier. Are the dry leaves tea leaves, or are the brewed leaves tea leaves? Before meeting boiling water, a dry leaf is in one state. When it meets the water, it unfolds, revealing its original shape: it has changed. Which, then, is the real tea leaf? The dry leaf is a tea leaf, and the brewed, wet leaf is also a tea leaf. It both is and is not: if you call it dry, there are times when it is wet; if you call it wet, there are times when it is dry. We therefore cannot fix what it is at a single point. It is a process of change. A person, too, is a flowing process—not the dry leaf, nor the wet leaf, but something continually changing.
就像刚才进行茶禅时，你看到的茶叶：干燥的是茶叶，还是冲泡过的是茶叶？干燥的茶叶没碰到滚水时，是一个状态；碰到滚水后舒展开来，显出原来茶叶的样子。它变化了，你说，哪个才是真正的茶叶？干燥的是茶叶，冲泡过、湿润的也是茶叶。它既是，也不是：你说它干燥，它也有湿润的时候；你说它湿润，它也有干燥的时候。所以，不能在某个定点上认定它就是什么，它是变化的过程。人也是流动的过程，不是那个干燥的茶叶，也不是湿润的茶叶，而是一直在变化。
Question Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师问：
Then do you exist or not?
那么，你存在还是不存在？
Answer Participant:
学员答：
I exist.
存在。
Dialogue Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师互动：
You exist. So the tea leaf is dry.
存在。所以茶叶是干燥的。
Dialogue Participant:
学员互动：
So one exists in a state of change.
就是以一个变动的状态存在。

Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Yes, it is changing; it is not fixed in one form. A leaf does not have to be dry to be a tea leaf: it can also be wet and unfolded. Nor can a person say, ‘This is simply what I am.’ You are different today from yesterday, and different from twenty years ago. The whole ‘I’ is flowing. We call this impermanence. When we recognize that every phenomenon is impermanent and flowing, we will not cling to it, and afflictions will not arise.
对，它是变动的，但不固定在一个样子。不是只有干燥的才叫茶叶，它也可以是湿润、开展的。人也不是说‘我就是这个样子’：昨天的你和今天不一样，二十年前的你和今天也不一样。整个【我】是流动的，我们称为无常。对于任何现象，都要认识到它是无常、流动的状态，这样就不会执着，也不会生起烦恼。

Answer Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师答：
Especially for us women, seeing photographs from twenty or thirty years ago is what we fear most. We compare them and think, ‘Why is my hair white now? Why do I have so many wrinkles?’ The person in the photograph twenty years ago is you, and the person in a photograph twenty or thirty years later is also you. They are all you, but not in an absolute sense, because you are continually changing. When we recognize this impermanence, we will not be troubled by white hair and more wrinkles. That is all.
尤其我们女生，最怕看到二十年、三十年前的照片，一对比就想：我现在怎么头发都白了，皱纹这么多？二十年前照片里的是你，二十年、三十年后的照片里也是你。都是你，可是都不是绝对的，因为你一直在变化。当我们认识到这种无常，就不会为了头发白了、皱纹多了而烦恼，就是如此。

6.8 8 结束与交流邀请

8 Closing and Invitation to Continue Sharing

Closing Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师结束语：
I hope this answers your question, or at least offers you some inspiration. I am sorry, but because of time, we have to stop here. I believe that after today’s day of experiencing Chan, you all have some feelings and insights. Of course, you may still have questions that need answers. I invite you to join our LINE group. You can ask questions or share your experiences there. If you need me to, I will also answer your questions there. You are especially welcome to return for our next Chan event, gain deeper experience and further insights, and exchange and share them with one another.
希望这样能回答你的问题，至少给你一点启发。很抱歉，因为时间关系，我们必须在这里告一段落。我相信，经过今天一天的体验禅，大家一定有一些感受和心得，当然也可能还有需要得到答案的问题。我邀请大家加入我们的 LINE 群组，大家可以在群里提出问题或分享经验。如果你需要，我也会在群里回答你的问题。更欢迎你下次禅修活动再来，有更深的体验、更多的心得，我们彼此交流分享。

Closing Teacher Jason:
Jason 老师结束语：
Finally, thank you all for coming to Chan Grove today and making this one-day Chan event possible together. Without you, we could not have completed today’s event. I am grateful to you all. Thank you, and may we meet again.
最后，感谢各位今天来到祖师禅林，共同成就今天的一日禅活动。没有你们，今天的活动就无法完成。感恩各位，谢谢，我们后会有期。